Filed under: Christ, Christianity, Emergent, Emerging, Faith, God, Holy Spirit, Jesus, atheism, church, evangelism, life, postmodern, religion
I believe in the gifts of the Spirit. Those who don’t believe that the gifts are for today often quote 1 Corinthians 13:10, “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” As far as I know that which is perfect has not yet come.
My problem with the the Charismatics is that they want to make Pentecost the center of the New Testament message. They boast about their gifts, rather than worshiping their God. Their focus becomes dreams, visions, healing and prophecy, which are all good for the edifying of the body of Christ, but should never usurp authentic worship of the God who imparts those gifts.
Liberals want to make social justice the central message of the New Testament. Social justice is relevant and good to a life in Christ, but it is not the center. Fundamentalists think that moral behavior is the center. They tell people “do” while the cross says “done”. Postmoderns emphasize grace and love, but when we look at John 3:16 we get a startling look at God’s love. For God so loved the world, that he slaughtered his only begotten Son.
The true center of the New Testament message is the blood-soaked, sin-absorbed cross. Liberals, postmoderns and most televangelists often avoid discussing blood and sin. They prefer talking about God’s promises. Unfortunately, there is no Good News without understanding the bad news. And the bad news is that every one of us has sinned. We are all guilty of deicide. We have spit in the face of the Savior. Pulled out his beard with our bare hands. Nailed him to the cross. And murdered the Savior of the world. When we begin to fathom what our sin has done we can begin to understand God’s mercy.
We should not shift the central message of the New Testament. We must remember that it is our sin that nailed Christ to the cross. And it is God’s mercy that raised him from the dead on the third day. When we acknowledge that we have chosen God’s things (i.e. the natural resources by which we live and build and enjoy) instead of choosing God we can begin to turn from our self-centered nature to a God-centered lifestyle. We can start living a life with values, rather than mere ideals. Most people wonder at some point in their life what is the purpose of our existence in the universe. When we repent of our selfish ways and turn to God we begin to understand that God made us with the intent that we would worship him and enjoy him forever.
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My church falls under the Charismatic movement. However, I totally acknowledge that my talents are God’s gifts to me. I do not boast as at the end of the day, they ain’t really my but things God lend to me.
I have also, all my life, felt that I have sinned deeply and yearn for God’s mercy. It is Him whose ever-lovingness that will forgive my sins and send his Son to die for me…
Comment by Dickson April 22, 2007 @ 6:49 pmDickson,
nice to (electronically) meet you. Thanks for your comment.
The picture of the slaughtered lamb was taken while I was in Morocco. The pic was taken during the Muslim holiday called Eid, which is like the Muslim Easter or Passover. Sorry if the graphic nature offends any of the readers. Blessings and…
Comment by storbakken April 22, 2007 @ 8:37 pmMore fire!
Jason
good post
I think if more Christians took the time to read the Old testament and see what atonement for sin and violations of the Law really involved…I gained an even Greater appreciation of the Cross…the more I understood what life was like before His sacrifice…can you imagine having to offer sacrifices for our sins still today…I don’t think we could produce livestock fast enough:)
Comment by daproffessor April 23, 2007 @ 12:15 amOur priest is recommending that we read Revelation (Oh No, Not Again). The image that has stuck is from Chapter 5, “Then I saw standing in the midst of the throne and the four living creatures and the elders, a Lamb that seemed to have been slain.” Which aspect of the lamb that has been slain was John the Revelator talking about? Maybe the lamb brought me here? I did a post on the cross for Easter, you might have seen it? http://epiphanist.wordpress.com/the-cross/
Comment by epiphanist April 23, 2007 @ 6:35 amI agree with a lot of your post – especially the points about seeing God’s true message and living for him.
However, I am one of those who thinks miracles are no longer needed; at least not in the way that they were needed when Christ and the apostles walked the earth. I’m sure you’re familiar with John 20:30-31, which tells us that the purpose of miracles was to convince people of the message being preached. While the miracles themselves often did some wonderful work (healing, casting out demons, etc), they were primarily used as proofs.
I believe that the Bible is our proof today. I think that one who looks at it honestly can see the truth of it without needing any miraculous sign to go along with it. And, as you said, I think that 1 Cor 13 is talking about that – that when “that which is perfect” (which I believe refers to God’s completed word) has come, those other things (prophecies, speaking in tongues, etc) are no longer needed.
Also, as far as I know, Jesus and the apostles are the only ones we see in the Bible who were able to cast out demons, heal the sick, etc. I don’t believe anyone else was ever shown to have those particular powers, and that’s another reason why I don’t believe they are still in existence today.
Good post though. I always enjoy reading your thoughts.
Comment by Nate April 23, 2007 @ 11:57 amNate,
I was raised attending an Independent Baptist church and there was never even an inclination towards the charismatic gifts. The Indie Baptists are reknowned for being firm in the Word of God. When I moved to NYC and started attending a church where they believe in the gifts I searched scriptures to see if they were being contrary to the Word. While I have never experienced the so-called “charismatic” gifts (which is redunant because “charisma” is Greek for “gift”) I do not deny others who claim to have such gifts as long as their experience is not contrary to scripture.
Romans 11:29, “for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.”
1 Corinthians 12: 4-6, “There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.”
John 14:12 “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.”
Thanks for your comment.
Comment by storbakken April 23, 2007 @ 12:50 pmBlessings, brotha!
Jas
Good post. Our pastor spoke on Easter morning about the sacrifice Jesus made. He asked if any of us really thought about Jesus dying for us. He spoke about what a sacrifice really was. Had any of us cried during the week because Jesus offered Himself up to die a brutal death for us? He spoke about the old system, the sacrificial system. How many of us would cry if he brought an actual cute fuzzy lamb in and brutally sacrificed it?
Made us think.
Comment by myderbe April 24, 2007 @ 9:39 amyet another good post. I think everyone has a tendency to err by focusing too much on one thing than the other at times.
Comment by shanti April 24, 2007 @ 9:46 pmMy problem with miracles etc. in the charismatic movement is that is all seems “for show”. I believe in miracles. The everyday miracle of just drawing your next breath. Not to mention many others that tend to go unnoticed. I think when one person draws attention to themselves by consistently doing miracles they’ve drawn more attention to themselves than pointing others to Christ. It always seems to me a more “Look at me” ploy. Join my club. Pay me money and I’ll tell you how to do these miracles too. It’s not that I don’t believe miracles happen today. I just think they happen more unnoticed and only so God gets all the glory and not the person.
Myderbe,
thanks for the comment. I agree that for most of us non-agrarian types it would not be easy to watch an animal be sacrificed. When I was in Morocco it was strange to watch the herds of sheep roaming everywhere to Eid while knowing that they were all going to be slaughtered for the holiday. Even though I wasn’t living like a “Christian” then the whole process really made me think of Jesus.
Shanti,
Comment by storbakken April 26, 2007 @ 10:27 amThanks for your post and glad to see that your up and blogging again. You’re so right that just breathing is a miracle. It’s amazing to slow down and think about the miracle of the most basic things sometimes. Blessings, cuz!
Without the shedding of blood their is no remission of sin, which sums up the necessity of the cross. But likewise without the resurrection we would have no hope of eternal life…
Oh the beauty of the gospel message!
For those who do not believe in the gifts and the needs for miracles I say this:
Billions of people either cannot read, have NO access to the scriptures, and or live in nations where Christianity is outlawed and their culture such that without miracles they will not believe.
2 Billion have no or insufficient access to medical care.
We have to lose our western mindset that thinks we are it and this is how all people live, and think! It’s time for the church here to Wake Up!
Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today and forever!
I was raised in the Episcopal church which is neither heavy on the Bible, and I’d never heard of the gifts as they certaily weren’t operating back then.
I struggle with the same things regarding the showiness in the charismatic movement, and in others, but there will always be a false counter to the real, and I have experienced the real; walk in it, therefore I believe, and know the gifts are still for today.
Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater!
Blessings to you Jason and More Fire!!!
Susan
Comment by faithwalk April 26, 2007 @ 10:51 amLet me clarify something; the gifts weren’t operating in the Episcoplal church back then as far as I knew…
Comment by faithwalk April 26, 2007 @ 10:55 amThanks and again, more fire!
we NEED to have the love of Jesus burning in our hearts that we may have compassion for the suffering and the lost who need our Savior then be obedient to get out there and bring the Harvest in!
Susan,
Comment by storbakken April 27, 2007 @ 1:09 pmThanks for your insight and encouragement. Your comments hit the nail on the head. It is so true that there is often a false counter to the truth. When I returned to Christ, the open-air preacher who encouraged my repentance and reconciliation with God was talking about the true church and the false church. And while I thought that I’d been living a spiritual life, I realized that it was not godly because Christ was not at the center. Blessings to you.
More fire!
Jason
Hey Jason,
Thanks for posting on my site. I hope we can build some awesome conversation and grow together in the love and Joy of Jesus.
In response to your post, I am thankful to read that someone else out there has seen the problems that we face in this day and age. Thanks for sharing the truth. We need more people who do that. There are 71 million blogs on the web right now. I want to be one that encourages people to love people and ultimately loves God.
Grasping for Jesus,
Tim
Comment by Tim April 27, 2007 @ 4:31 pmStorbakken, I love the emphasis you place on the cross and the blood of Christ. The love Christ showed for us on the cross is what really enables us to live our lives for Him.
Comment by prema April 27, 2007 @ 7:53 pm“For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: and that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.” 2 Cor 5:15-16.
May our lives more and more reflect His death.
I sooooo agree with this post….
Comment by ashjoshua April 27, 2007 @ 10:43 pmI am also a oneness apostolic, and I do not brag about the beautiful gift God has given to me or to others that I know. I only want to do my best to be a vessel God can use to communicate His glory to people who don’t know how to listen to His voice yet.
Comment by jillybean April 30, 2007 @ 9:22 pmThanks for your comment, Jillybean. I don’t claim to be a oneness apostolic. While many of the differences between oneness and trinitarian doctrine appear to be semantic, I hold firm to the trinity. Thanks for you comment.
Comment by storbakken April 30, 2007 @ 9:57 pmMore fire!
Jason